Spain, anyone?

Forum devoted to country/league/cup/team definition topics. You can also get help here if you have trouble writing or using a definition.
gyboth
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Spain, anyone?

Post by gyboth »

there are millions of spanish-speaking football enthusiasts, so it'd be nice to have a spanish definition for 1.9.0.

does anyone of you speak spanish well enough to collect the information necessary about the spanish system? i can do the rest, then (write the definitions).

this is what i found out until now:
As from the season 1999/2000, the bottom three clubs are relegated automatically and the top three of 2A are promoted. This is a change from the season before, when two teams were relegated directly and two played off against the third and fourth placed teams in 2A. The bottom four of 2A are relegated, and the top four of each of the four groups of 2B go into four playoff groups for the four spots in 2A. Similar systems apply to the third and lower regional divisions.
this sounds fairly easy (for me, that is) if we do the three layers 1, 2A and 2B (with the four groups). what we'd still need is a) a list of the teams and b) the playoff rules for the promotion games from 2B to 2A.
this is what someone who speaks spanish would have to find out.

as a starting point, the official spanish federation site is http://www.rfef.es.

gyözö
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Bentzia

Teams for spanish leage

Post by Bentzia »

For first layer (Primera División) (1ª División)

Alavés
At. Madrid
Athletic
Barcelona
Betis
Cádiz
Celta
Deportivo
Espanyol
Getafe
Málaga
Mallorca
Osasuna
R. Madrid
R. Sociedad
Racing
Sevilla
Valencia
Villarreal
Zaragoza

20 teams
Guest

Post by Guest »

For second layer (Segunda División) (2ª División)

Albacete
Almería
Castellón
Ciudad Murcia
Eibar
Ejido
Elche
Gimnàstic
Hércules
Levante
Lleida
Lorca
Málaga B
Murcia
Numancia
R. Ferrol
R. Madrid B
Recreativo
Sporting
Tenerife
Valladolid
Xerez

22 teams

The teams with a final B on his name can't play on the same layer than the team which has the same name but the B. For example if "R. Madrid B" wins the chamionship of his leage, It can't play the "Primera Division" leage the next year because the "R. Madrid" is there. In this case, another team gets his place.
On the extremely rare case that the "R. Madrid" falls to "Segunda División", the "R. Madrid B" will fall to the third layer even if the "R. Madrid B" wins his leage.
Bentzia

Post by Bentzia »

For third layer (Segunda división B GI)(2ª división B GI)

Alcalá
Alcorcón
At. Madrid B
Castillo
Celta B
Fuenlabrada
Lanzarote
Las Palmas
Leganés
Melilla
Móstoles
Negreira
Ourense
Pajara-Playas de Jandia
Pontevedra
Rayo Vallecano
San Isidro
San Sebastiián de los Reyes
Universidad
Vecindario

20 teams
Guest

Post by Guest »

For third layer (Segunda división B GII)(2ª división B GII)
Alavés B
Amurrio
Athletic B
Barakaldo
Burgos
C. Durango
C. Leonesa
Lemona
Luanco
Palencia
Ponferrada
Portugalete
R. Oviedo
R. Racing
R. Sociedad B
R. Unión
Salamanca
Valladolid B
Zalla
Zamora

20 teams
Guest

Post by Guest »

For third layer (Segunda división B GIII)(2ª división B GIII)
Alcoyano
Alfaro
Alicante
Badalona
Barcelona B
Benidorm
Figueres
Gramanet
Huesca
L'Hospitalet
Levante B
Osasuna B
Peralt
R. Rioja
Reus
Sabadell
Sant Andreu
Terrassa
Villajoyosa
Zaragoza B

20 Teams
Guest

Post by Guest »

there is a change "Alcalá" is "Alcalá de Henares"
Bentzia wrote:For third layer (Segunda división B GI)(2ª división B GI)

Alcalá
Alcorcón
At. Madrid B
Castillo
Celta B
Fuenlabrada
Lanzarote
Las Palmas
Leganés
Melilla
Móstoles
Negreira
Ourense
Pajara-Playas de Jandia
Pontevedra
Rayo Vallecano
San Isidro
San Sebastiián de los Reyes
Universidad
Vecindario

20 teams
Bentzia

Post by Bentzia »

For third layer (Segunda división B GIV)(2ª división B GIV)
Águilas
Alcalá
Algeciras
Almansa
Badajoz
Baza
Cartagena
Ceuta
Conquense
Córdoba
Diter Zafra
Écija
Extremadura
Jaén
Linares
Marbella
Mérida
Sevilla B
Talavera
Villanueva

20 Teams
Bentzia

Play-off system from 2ªB to 2ª

Post by Bentzia »

Once leage is finished, the first four team in each group (16 teams) gets into the play off. They make four groups randomly but with some restrictions:
-There can't be two or more teams from the original leage.
-There can't be two or more teams with the same rank on his own original leage.

On each group, they play a leage champinship (3+3 matchs) an the cahmpion is promoted to 2ª
gyboth
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Re: Play-off system from 2ªB to 2ª

Post by gyboth »

Anonymous wrote:The teams with a final B on his name can't play on the same layer than the team which has the same name but the B. For example if "R. Madrid B" wins the chamionship of his leage, It can't play the "Primera Division" leage the next year because the "R. Madrid" is there. In this case, another team gets his place.
On the extremely rare case that the "R. Madrid" falls to "Segunda División", the "R. Madrid B" will fall to the third layer even if the "R. Madrid B" wins his leage.
this is a restriction that is too circumstantial to implement. there are other countries with such restrictions, like germany. but just like leagues that contain teams from the same geographical region this is too complicated and too special to implement.
Bentzia wrote:Once leage is finished, the first four team in each group (16 teams) gets into the play off. They make four groups randomly but with some restrictions:
-There can't be two or more teams from the original leage.
-There can't be two or more teams with the same rank on his own original leage.

On each group, they play a leage champinship (3+3 matchs) an the cahmpion is promoted to 2ª
great! exactly what i needed. 1.9.1 will have a spanish country definition, then :-) however, the restrictions won't work. we'll either have to make deterministic rules (e.g. one group with first two from b i and first two from b ii, one with first two from biii and b iv etc.) or make completely random groups.

could you perhaps tell us which cups there are and how they work? i only know the name copa del rey, but i don't have a clue what system is used.

we'd also need inofficial team names for the first two leagues at least, e.g. espanyol -> e. barcelona or deportivo -> la coruna; and a corresponding section in the official names file (see http://bygfoot.sourceforge.net/revisions/official_names ).

thanks for your information!

gyözö
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Bentzia

Re: Play-off system from 2ªB to 2ª

Post by Bentzia »

gyboth wrote:we'll either have to make deterministic rules (e.g. one group with first two from b i and first two from b ii, one with first two from biii and b iv etc.) or make completely random groups.
My recomedation.

Play Off I Group:
1st 2B I
2nd 2B II
3rd 2B III
4th 2B IV

Play Off II Group:
1st 2B II
2nd 2B III
3rd 2B IV
4th 2B I

Play Off III Group:
1st 2B III
2nd 2B IV
3rd 2B I
4th 2B II

Play Off IV Group:
1st 2B IV
2nd 2B I
3rd 2B II
4th 2B III
bentzia

Re: Play-off system from 2ªB to 2ª

Post by bentzia »

gyboth wrote:could you perhaps tell us which cups there are and how they work? i only know the name copa del rey, but i don't have a clue what system is used.
Rigth now there is a proposal from LFP (Professional Football Leage) to the RFEF (Royal Spanish Football Federation) to change the competition system for the "Copa del Rey 05/06"

There is another cup: "Copa RFEF" it is dificult to implement because it has two stages. First is played an territorial stage with layer 4 (Tercera División) teams and Layer 3 (Segunda División B). Once there is a Champion on each territory (17 territories), the champions play the second stage. On the first stage, there are 400 teams.

You may implement only the second stage with the first 15 teams of each group in Layer 3 (64 Teams) on a cup system 6 games. The winner earn rights for play the "Copa del Rey" on the next seasson.

The "Copa del Rey" competition system is a little complex. This is the proposal for the 05/06 seasson (not approved yet)
First, you have the champion of the "Copa RFEF" plus the Layer 2 teams ranked 1-18 (1+18=19 Teams). One randomly get the next match. The other 18 plays only a match (on the worst ranked stadium) to get the next one. There are 10 teams left.
It repeats once and there are 5 teams left.
It's now when first layer 8-20 (13 teams) ranked on last seasson leage comes into the competition. There are 13+5=18 teams.
They play a double round match and 9 teams left.
Finally joins them the 1-7 ranked temas. There ar 7+9=16 teams.
They play double round match until the final. The final is a single match on neutral stadium.
gyboth
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Re: Play-off system from 2ªB to 2ª

Post by gyboth »

Bentzia wrote:My recomedation.
agreed. i've been thinking about such a selection, too.
bentzia wrote:You may implement only the second stage with the first 15 teams of each group in Layer 3 (64 Teams) on a cup system 6 games. The winner earn rights for play the "Copa del Rey" on the next seasson
so the rfef is only for the lower teams? and how are there 64 teams? 15 * 4 = 60. did you rather mean the first 16? and is the cup system home/away or single match?
The "Copa del Rey" competition system is a little complex. This is the proposal for the 05/06 seasson (not approved yet)
First, you have the champion of the "Copa RFEF" plus the Layer 2 teams ranked 1-18 (1+18=19 Teams). One randomly get the next match. The other 18 plays only a match (on the worst ranked stadium) to get the next one. There are 10 teams left.
It repeats once and there are 5 teams left.
It's now when first layer 8-20 (13 teams) ranked on last seasson leage comes into the competition. There are 13+5=18 teams.
They play a double round match and 9 teams left.
Finally joins them the 1-7 ranked temas. There ar 7+9=16 teams.
They play double round match until the final. The final is a single match on neutral stadium.
tricky. the problem is that the program doesn't store last season's league ranking during the following season; the ranks are only available at the beginning of the season. other than this, it's possible to define the cup you described.
i think a slight revision of the cup system should solve the other problem, too.

don't count on quick implementation, though. i'm preparing for exams and don't have a lot of time for Bygfoot currently.

btw, what's the name of the playoff games? i mean, like the english 'promotion games'.

gyözö
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bentzia

Re: Play-off system from 2ªB to 2ª

Post by bentzia »

gyboth wrote:so the rfef is only for the lower teams? and how are there 64 teams? 15 * 4 = 60. did you rather mean the first 16? and is the cup system home/away or single match?
Yes, It is for lower teams. I forgot add the four last teams on layer 2 (rank 19-22) I'm not sure, but y think it's a home/away system.
gyboth wrote:tricky. the problem is that the program doesn't store last season's league ranking during the following season; the ranks are only available at the beginning of the season. other than this, it's possible to define the cup you described.
i think a slight revision of the cup system should solve the other problem, too.
If I understand you, you can define the cup before the season begins. There is another problem. You need the 04/05 seasson ranking for the first seasson in game.
gyboth wrote: don't count on quick implementation, though. i'm preparing for exams and don't have a lot of time for Bygfoot currently.
Don't worry. I'm not paying you ;)
I think is more urgent to translate Bygfoot into Spanish and get a Layer 1 definition for Spain to play (cups, layer 2 and 3 aren't essential to get fun). I saw there is somebody translating and I would like help him.
gyboth wrote:btw, what's the name of the playoff games? i mean, like the english 'promotion games'.
"Liguilla de ascenso" (promoting little leage)

kind regards
gyboth
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Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:42 am
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Re: Play-off system from 2ªB to 2ª

Post by gyboth »

bentzia wrote:If I understand you, you can define the cup before the season begins. There is another problem. You need the 04/05 seasson ranking for the first seasson in game.
i'm not concerned about the first season, the user can live with a bit of randomness there.

the cups are 'defined' at the beginning of a season, but only the teams participating in the first round are loaded (added to the cup). so the teams from layer 1 coming into the cup later will be chosen (in the current implementation) according to their ranks in the middle of the season.

the solution will be to load all teams (for all cup rounds that have new teams and not only teams that advance from previous rounds) when creating the cup at the beginning of the season.
Don't worry. I'm not paying you ;)
I think is more urgent to translate Bygfoot into Spanish and get a Layer 1 definition for Spain to play (cups, layer 2 and 3 aren't essential to get fun). I saw there is somebody translating and I would like help him.
if i only knew his email address :-? i think it was something like felesh telefonica net (but i'm not sure about the 'net', maybe you know better). you can try out that one (if you do mean the chap who posted about translating in the translation forum).

as for the definition, it's a pity mark isn't around lately, he's quite a good definition-maker. but maybe i'll have time for it a bit later (if i manage to set up gentoo, that is ;-)).

if you only want to play a bit without cups (and without promotion games) it's really easy to make a definition, see the howto post and the howto page.

gyözö
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