help Australia state league def

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vector
Posts: 449
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:26 pm
Location: Australia, Victoria

help Australia state league def

Post by vector »

Hi all
I emailed gyozo(this forum was down) and he sees no problem but I don need some help defining it.
http://mec-symonds.eng.monash.edu.au/cg ... tAustralia
here lies the info relating to the Australian victoria league. I thought it might expand bygfoots market share :) and also give Aussie football an injection (which it needs) if we include this in bygfoot.

Im not totally sure how the definition stuff works but will in the next few weeks give it ago.
UNLESS someone knows how to eaily implement my info.
I have all the teams in a excel spreadsheet , so can export it to any list like format.
Im working on renaming the teams to copyright safe ones at the mo.

help much appreciated
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vector
Posts: 449
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:26 pm
Location: Australia, Victoria

Post by vector »

ive just added a breif prem.div,div2,div 3 definition tar to the site. Im not sure its correct and I dont know how to implement the playoff situation for the 2nd spot promotion from div2se and nw to div1

but its a start
i havent done the provisional leagues yet but I cna add them easy enough later.

note i was going to make an overall league cup...cause we can :)
"There are two ways to score. Dribble it over the line or smash it into the back of the net."
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MarkC
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:34 pm

Re: help Australia state league def

Post by MarkC »

help much appreciated
Help is at hand :wink:

You've already done all the hard work by the sound of it. I'll download your defs and give them a test drive :)

The playoff system between divs. 1 and 2 is the kind of thing I was talking about in the Spain thread, where the number of teams going up each division isn't known up front. Like the Spanish definition, it'll need a code change to get it working. For now, I suggest we leave out the playoffs and just promote the NW and SE champions. When I finally get my act together and sort the code out, we can add the playoffs.

How do the playoffs work? Are they home/away aggregate fixtures like in England or are they just single matches?

Mark
vector
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Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:26 pm
Location: Australia, Victoria

Post by vector »

thanks Mark

as for hard work , yes, :P but I think there are plenty of errors in my def files.
How do the playoffs work? Are they home/away aggregate fixtures like in England or are they just single matches?
It dosent actually mention that here
http://www.soccervictoria.org.au/portal ... ations.pdf

I suspect its just a one off match/ matches, no home away aggregate stuff
"There are two ways to score. Dribble it over the line or smash it into the back of the net."
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MarkC
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:34 pm

Post by MarkC »

Right, I've attached an updated zip file.

I filled in the teams for Division 3 SE from your spreadsheet, and set the average skill for division 3 to 2750. Previously it was 3000, the same as division 2.

Playoffs are still not implemented.

Is it right that the teams only play each other twice: 22 matches per season?

How do you want the league cup to work? Let me know the structure you want, i.e. number of rounds, which leagues play in which rounds, and so on, and I'll put a file together.

I left the flag set to flag_aus_vic, ready for when you create the Victoria state flag :)

Mark
Attachments
aus_victoria.zip
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vector
Posts: 449
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:26 pm
Location: Australia, Victoria

Post by vector »

Playoffs are still not implemented.
gyozo says hes working on that ;)
Is it right that the teams only play each other twice: 22 matches per season?
yep thats all they get, home and away
How do you want the league cup to work?
im tossing wether to keep it accurate (no league cup) or to spice it up and add one to bygfoot.
Id guess id go something like this.
everyone gets a chance. (provisional, state and prem
random draw
simple knockout rules (ie NOT round robin) more like the FA cup.

ohh yes i must do the flag.
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gyboth
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Post by gyboth »

vector wrote:
Playoffs are still not implemented.
gyozo says hes working on that ;)
well, not on the playoffs themselves but on the source code (because the playoff system as described on your wiki page wasn't implementable).

anyway, my changes are cvs'ed now and should enable us (or MarkC ;-)) to implement the playoffs.

gyözö
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vector
Posts: 449
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Location: Australia, Victoria

Post by vector »

kewl i wait for mark c to implement then ill do some testing.
"There are two ways to score. Dribble it over the line or smash it into the back of the net."
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MarkC
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Post by MarkC »

OK, I've cvs'd the Victoria definition.

I've used the normal Australian flag for now. When the Victoria flag is available, I'll update the files to use it.

I haven't done the Prov. leagues yet - I'll do those after I've dealt with Spain!
Unless you (vector) tell me otherwise, I'll use skill levels of 2500, 2250 (and 2000 if there are three prov. layers - forgotten.). Div. 3 is 2750.
You'll probably be able to suggest better skill levels after you've tested a bit.

The league cup is implemented - random draw of 74 teams - 7 rounds. All single-match fixtures without replays, with a neutral stadium for the final.
When I do the prov. leagues I'll extend the league cup to include them.

BUT: Gyözö - we have a problem!

Prom/rel. We have two places where a dest_sid contains both aus_vic2nw and aus_vic2se. There is one in the ordinary relegation for division 1, and another in the final playoff match.
They serve two very different purposes. The first says, "I want my teams split evenly amongst the leagues." The second says, "I want my team to go to whichever league has a free slot."

Unfortunately, the code can't recognise this subtle difference, and it just allocates the three teams randomly to the two leagues. So sometimes when a division 2 team loses the playoff, it "jumps" from NW to SE, or vice versa.

I've avoided this (temporarily?) by explicitly sending the 11th place team to the NW league, and the 12th place team to the SE league, and risking any slight bias this might cause towards the NW. In reality I doubt it's significant, and I doubt even more that it would be noticed by any player, over the number of seasons a game is likely to cover.
Mark
gyboth
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Post by gyboth »

MarkC wrote:OK, I've cvs'd the Victoria definition.
great.
BUT: Gyözö - we have a problem!
:-P
Unfortunately, the code can't recognise this subtle difference, and it just allocates the three teams randomly to the two leagues. So sometimes when a division 2 team loses the playoff, it "jumps" from NW to SE, or vice versa.
phew. i feared my beautiful shiny new prom/rel code crashes.
I've avoided this (temporarily?) by explicitly sending the 11th place team to the NW league, and the 12th place team to the SE league, and risking any slight bias this might cause towards the NW. In reality I doubt it's significant, and I doubt even more that it would be noticed by any player, over the number of seasons a game is likely to cover.
i'd rather suggest to accept the jumping team, as regionality can't be preserved anyway; you can't be sure that the 12th team in div1 is (geographically) in the SE region, or that the 11th on is in the NW region, so why not allow the playoff loser to get to a new division occasionally?

gyözö
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MarkC
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Post by MarkC »

so why not allow the playoff loser to get to a new division occasionally?
Well, it's confusing for the player! I finish second in Div. 2 NW, lose in the playoff, and next season I suddenly find myself in the Div. 2 SE. What gives?!

I know that it doesn't matter from a logical point of view, but I'd report it as a bug if it happened to me!
A less pragmatic player might be looking forward to a revenge match against a team that denied them the three points they needed to come first in the division!

Ultimately it's your call of course, and by the time we're ready to release 1.9.1 you might have talked me round anyway :)

Mark
gyboth
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Post by gyboth »

MarkC wrote:Well, it's confusing for the player! I finish second in Div. 2 NW, lose in the playoff, and next season I suddenly find myself in the Div. 2 SE. What gives?!
all right all right. i'd rather have thought it'd spice things up to get into the parallel league, but then i'm not the typical Bygfoot user ;-) let's do it your way then, it's your definition, after all.

gyözö
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MarkC
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Post by MarkC »

let's do it your way then, it's your definition, after all.
Wow, that was easy :wink:

Let me just say though, it's your game, after all, and really it's vector's definition!
The real hard work is in gathering all the real-world data.
But yes, let's do it my way :D
vector
Posts: 449
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:26 pm
Location: Australia, Victoria

Post by vector »

yo here it is sorry it took so long.. under the hammer here at work :(
http://mec-symonds.eng.monash.edu.au/tw ... ia_vic.png
So sometimes when a division 2 team loses the playoff, it "jumps" from NW to SE, or vice versa.
I admit to realising this first off and its why i threw my hands in the air and passed it on to you the eggspurts.
I have no idea why aus has to be so tricky but thats the way it is. Many thanks for sorting it out.Im hoping we can find a following in the lower league players. I have mentioned bygfoot on various aus football forums. (most seem to play fantasy league etc :() but none i know of have the vic league in it. They are now starting to get the A-league..but we were there first :)

I take it that you still have some things to sort out?
going by the last posts, in order to NOT mix up the SE NW etc the code has to change?..
Let me know when its done, ill do some vigorous testing..
Im on holidays mid september, i intend taking the laptop away with me and playing/testing bygfoot abit :)
"There are two ways to score. Dribble it over the line or smash it into the back of the net."
What type are you?
MarkC
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:34 pm

Post by MarkC »

vector wrote:yo here it is sorry it took so long.. under the hammer here at work :(
No worries, no great rush!

I've added the provisional divisions to CVS along with the flag. The league cup now covers the whole league, still with a random draw.

The league skill levels will probably need tweaking. I'll await the results of your vigorous testing :) The jump from 4500 to 3500 might be too big compared to the others.

You might prefer to give the higher leagues byes in the cup too, to avoid silly matches where prov.div.3 plays premiership in the second round, for example. I've seen 15-0 results in the 2nd and 3rd rounds!
going by the last posts, in order to NOT mix up the SE NW etc the code has to change?
Nope, no code change needed. I've worked around it by making the 11th team in Div.1 always go to the NW, and the 12th team go to the SE, instead of them being placed randomly.
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